Michigan Responses

 

Responses to the Three Questions

FIRST QUESTION:

What Values Do We Hold in Common?

1. Call of mission – International Missions
2. Trinity
3. Jesus is Lord
4. Authority of God’s word
5. God’s love for all people
6. Four fragile freedoms
   1. Soul Liberty
   2. Freedom Bible
   3. Autonomy of Local Church
   4. Religious Freedom
7. Scripture final authority
8. Love for each other
9. Do what is right is our desire
10. Straddling a fence is painful
11. Balance righteousness and mercy
12. Careful to avoid taking God’s blessings away from our convention
13. Love all people and win them to Christ
14. Respect for different way of interpreting. Scripture

1. respectful in communicating our opinions/differences.

15. Respect for one another
16. Belief in transforming power of Holy Spirit
17. Sense of belonging, community
18. Never insisted that unity require uniformity
19. Salvation by God’s grace
20. We are not alone in this
21. We have a lot to learn in ministering to GLBT community
22. Sexuality is a complex, puzzling thing
23. We are all wrestling and value being together

1. We value autonomy of local church – we don’t want to be told what we have to believe.

24. Grace - truth  - incarnation
25. Sexuality is important and unavoidable
26. Value family/marriage
27. Shared history
28. Valuing diversity/African American Church

1. Inclusion of Black church in dialogue

29. Separation of church and state
30. Ours is an incarnate theology
31. We are People of the Resurrection
32. God can redeem anything/anyone
33. Value that we are Baptists
34. Value fellowship/laughter

1. Bridge – Our values about conversation shows how we can live relationally, but how practically?

1. We can gather lovingly and respectfully
2. But what about specific situation? [Are our differences such that we cannot live together]

 SECOND QUESTION:

What do you have to say to the Senators about the Proposed Amendment?

1. Adopt it
2. The stated premise IS that we can go forward -- Or How can we go forward?
3. Amendment  - can you be a homosexual on Senate if you are celibate?
4. Stand firm on conscience - don’t be threatened.
5. Sexual integrity is the standard (our immorality in general is not a good idea)
6. Amendment is incompatible with Christian teaching itself
7. Amendment represents a particular view of scripture and excludes other texts that address homosexuality
8. Regarding the second part [of proposed amendment]:

1. is hypocritical or nightmarish
2.  how are you going to investigate compliance of Code of Ethics?

9. Suggest section B NOT be adopted - even if A is adopted.
10. Prayers will be with you
11. Find agreement or what we can live with (Alter amendment)
12. Don’t adopt it.
13. Define section B - too ambiguous
14. What does “policy” mean
15. The amendment doesn’t fit Baptist life because it unenforceable (anatomy of local church)
16. Solution: table it for 5 years
17. I find this effort to undermine duly ordained and elected senators from fulfilling their duties abhorrent
18. View from pew - this only affects Ministers Council? (or resolutions only affect national staff)
19. This is a stepping stone to larger ramifications.  The thought that it affects only 2 people in the room [the senators] is not true.
20. Affects comfort level of interacting of Council locally
21. be aware of implications/ results/message ripple throughout denomination
22. There will be ripples
23. Theology must take precedence of policy - whose theology?

Consider prayerfully, seek leading of Spirit.  When given a choice between schism and heresy - which should you choose – one member said heresy.

THIRD QUESTION:

If God were to show us a way forward together, what would it look like?  What can we imagine?  Is it possible?

1. Everyone would miraculously agree with me
2. We would never talk about issues
3. How can two walk together unless they agree?

1. Functional vs relational
2. Example of Unitarian and Baptist clergy who are brothers.  We respect one another relationally, but we are not together religiously.  We go our separate ways when it comes to our beliefs.

4. In the church we haven’t done theologizing well.
5. Let’s get together and really study Romans 1

1. Love to do theology and hear one another

1. And honor the viewpoint

.

6. Look like us talking together

1. Continuing

7. Kingdom of God breaking through
8. Higher priority or relationship vs. high priority on right and wrong
9. Freedom.      Enjoy healthy relationships
10. Acknowledge authenticity of Scripture over feelings and over culture.
11. We would agree on common ministry and mission
12. More focus, passion for evangelism
13. Pastors “caught” in adultery, porn., etc. = OUT

1. Practicing homosexuality = OUT

14. Repenting of how we have been an obstacle for people coming to Christ.
15. What would ministry look like to/with GLBT?

1. Lots room to be specific and practical

16. Move on together, at what level?

1. BWA. WCC?
2. We can agree to disagree, agreeably
3. It would take us weeks to dialogue, study
4. Concern to learn more about how to minister to GLBT

1. Also, concerned that there is a church that marries gays.

17. Don’t see how we can stay together with integrity
18. Presbyterians, with out a vote up or down, have agreed to continue dialogue instead of schism
19. Miracles - will come forward

1. Need patience
2. Drop threats
3. Continue a formal process

20. Jesus led His disciples forward

1. Didn’t create a structure that keeps people from moving forward

21. A vote can ONLY be schismatic
22. REMC letter speaks to attrition rate

1. How to stop bleeding

23. Desire to dialogue should not keep us from being decisive
24. Might look like two subdivided denominations